Some of the more aggressive blowback I’ve had from Falun Gong practitioners
Recently there have been quite a few Falun Gong practitioners who have gotten in touch by various channels to try and convince me to take my articles down. Others have sent messages that are apparently just attempts to try and make me feel worthless or tell me that I’m on my way to hell.
So I’m posting here the aggressive messages I receive from Falun Gong practitioners. I think it’s an interesting insight into the community and the pressure on people who leave. I hope it will also discourage people from sending me more of these kinds of messages. Any responses I wrote are in italics.
I’m still happy for people who are in the process of leaving to get in touch. I will absolutely respect your privacy.
But for people who are still devout believers and want to contact me to get a pro-Falun Gong message across; or convince me not to talk to the media when approached; or to pretend to be my friend and deliver stern words dressed up as compassion; or to simply hurl their anger at me; PLEASE JUST LEAVE ME ALONE. This blog isn’t for you, and I have no business with you.
It also isn’t for anti-Falun Gong propaganda from the Chinese government. The articles on this blog that are about Falun Gong are intended for people who have left or are in the process of leaving the group.
And a suggestion to former Falun Gong practitioners who are going through the difficult process of leaving and are still finding it tough: Maybe leave this post for another day, as it could be disturbing to you.
This one came in via Facebook from someone I considered a friend when I was a Falun Gong practitioner. Apparently not anymore, he’s telling me I’m going to hell.
Hi Ben,
I read your remarks to a number of media outlets regarding your experiences with Falun Dafa’s practice and Epoch Times. Sorry you feel that way. It’s your choice whether to work or not work for ET, just as you have the choice to practice or not practice Falun Dafa. During the many years you practiced Dafa you received many benefits, just as you received many benefits through working for ET. You also received confidential information that was not to be shared with outsiders. Unfortunately, you breached this condition and sadly there are consequences for damaging the reputation of Falun Dafa and disclosing confidential information from ET. I am not going to do anything to you, except I hope it’s quick, as painless as possible and that you don’t make things worse for yourself by digging yourself into an even deeper pit. Be careful with your words and actions in future, my old friend. Richard.
I am a ex military veteran of 10 years i served in Afghanistan and Timor. I also practice Falun Gong for 20 years since I was 19. I practice alone all my life and never practice in cities. City practitioners have a different mentality then country town practitioners. I understand its not easy being a practitioner. Im not chinese so I understand im a little bit of a black sheep. If you would like to talk some time please call me. I hope im not trying to suck you in. Not everyone is going to practice Falun gong. — Alex
Hi Alex,
If you’re questioning your belief and want to talk to someone about it I’m happy to do that. If you’re trying to talk me back in, I’m absolutely, 100% out and very happy to be.
Thanks,
Ben
Hi Ben
I just woke up
Im very sorry about the stress and confusion that you were under while practising its very miserable to practice. Your article helped me realise how happy I am.
As for trying to drag you back in. Why would I? You city practitioners are the biggest circle jerks. Most of the westerners like you followed the Chinese practitioners who ran away from there country like little cowards.
I speak my truths
Im not trying to get you to practice. Not everyone is ment for it. Just try and not be against it. You should really undo all the harm you have done and do your best to fix it.
Alex you actually don’t sound very happy at all, brimming with anger and prejudice.
If you want to talk about harm, you should think about the harm you’re doing sending angry messages like this. And in defending a practice that harms people in the many ways I’ve documented.
Since you’ve spoken your truths I’m speaking mine. You’re one of many practitioners I’ve encountered who could benefit a lot from seeing a psychologist, but are held back from doing that by Li’s teachings against taking medicine and against opening up to ordinary people. In addition to the barriers that a lot of people face in first talking to someone about their problems. The practice is doing you harm.
I’ve posted your message to my blog, as is my policy with aggressive messages from believers. You can find it at this link below, along with a description of the kinds of messages I post publicly, compared to the kinds of messages I promise to keep anonymous:
If you ever find yourself questioning and want to talk about it, I’m still willing. But if you send me one more message with any other intention to that, I will block you and publish it.
Take care of yourself Alex,
Ben
Im a ex infantry soldier who served in Afghanistan. Now im a construction worker. My words are going to sound aggressive and angry compared to a office person. So when I say city circle jerk it’s not going to offend the average tradie or farmer. As for your blog I was hoping to read some shocking things. Found it boring
Not much blowback,
Except a whole lot of people who believe in Natural justice or you have mistakenly thought it was a threat.
Most people who practise are free to come and go. I also take medication for my sickness.
If you really are a true journalist from abc (I’ve never claimed to be a journalist from the ABC but contributed an article to them here) and your not lying Please post this on your blog without editing it.
Thx
Here’s another one from a person who was a ‘friend’ when I was a believer, and I considered her a good friend. Now she hates my guts due to the recent coverage of Falun Gong by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, and thinks I’m a CCP spy. I’ve removed the name on this one. I am posting it more than anything because it shows how closely belief in Falun Gong is now intertwined with the belief in QAnon and that whole set of conspiracy theories. All the Falun Gong believers I know now are deeply into this.
Hi Ben,
I was sent the link below, about few former Falun Gong practitioners, or relative of practitioner who misinterpret Falun Dafa on media… This reminds me of you, since you are not following Dafa now, did the media approach you?
Not surprisingly, the author on this article, branded himself as “dark karma”. Ironically, these people are super “religious”, they knew there is God, but they choose Satan.
Sadly, they need the “useful idiots” which they managed to brainwashing them into so called “atheists” to help them to pull people away from the truth …
Many people awake to this now, I met a person couple of weeks ago, a young Australian, told me “If you dont watch TV, you wont get virus!” …That made Geoff and I laugh, yes, we havnt been watching fake news for long time….haha.
Having a science study background, I do find Dafa’s teaching are perfect……The only problem is, my shortcomings are many! and hard for me making progress in cultivation…
I hope you will be able to perceive the wisdom and help in Dafa as much as I do….
Regards,
[Name removed]
Hi [name removed],
I participated in the report. It’s not fake news and there’s no big conspiracy like that. I was honest with them about my perspective on Falun Gong and the teachings now that I’ve left.
I don’t like the Chinese government. But I also don’t like Falun Gong and don’t think it’s good for people. It’s become a giant political machine for the benefit of Li and his greedy family members, altogether different from the spiritual movement I thought I joined when I first meditated with you and [another person] in the park under the giant fig trees at the end of Glebe Point Rd. There is nothing spiritual about it at all now.
This is how I feel deeply, when I ask myself about my own experiences and having talked to a lot of other people who have since left about their experiences. I’m grateful every day that I left and reclaimed my life and my dreams. I’m a better, healthier, happier, kinder person.
We’ve always been friends, you’ve sent me an honest email about how you feel about the upcoming report and I thought it deserved an honest reply, so this is it.
Stay well [name removed], happy to keep in touch if you want to.
Ben
Hi Ben,
This is quite disturbing news to me that you participated in this. Especially when you accuse My Master and his family “greedy members”….. I have no contact or necessity to get to know Master Li’s family members, Master Li’s teaching is what I have embraced. I am not sure if you can legally slam other persons character on media without evidence?
Yes, ABC has been making fake news and misleading news for quite a long time, my sister who is not a Falun Dafa practitioner, she was awake by the lies of ABC decide only read it as she reads Communist China news. because she is apolitical on things, and out of curiosity, she got up 3 Am in Sydney watching Donald Trump’s inauguration in Jan 2017, to see how the event proceed, but not even a day pass, she was shocked by ABC saying there is few attendee at Trump’s inauguration…. , She questioned why such major media lies and slander someone… after investigation, she discovered these media may helping Hilary to cover up lots of crimes that Hilary and some people are involved…and she kept ringing me about more biased news and … from ABC, in the end, my sister, like many other people, decide to call ABC fake news.
Why did you first decide to learn Falun Dafa? I dont remember we had any in-depth discussing about cultivation or Falun Dafa in the past, I think I assumed that you would team up with younger age practitioners naturally, I dont know why and what made you leave Dafa either. This made me wander if you were following the wrong students? Like football team, everyone working hard to win game, but some secretly plays match fixing… no game any more…That’s sucks.
I know that you are honest telling people your perspective. I had classmates complained about teachers in the past, but I find all of my teachers in my schooling time were very good, there were few which I have absolutely no common with them, but I still learned thing from them in one way or another, sometimes I just a lousy student in that subject. Sure, students usually like to judge their teachers, that’s one of their talking subjects, no matter boys and girls, but not every student, say who are learning architects, doctors or electricians, can be able to design a house able to be build; able to properly treat patients; or wire a house that allows all electrical items works…. I dont think the schools should be blamed for? but ABC, eagerly find a way to defame Dafa… because they want dark karma..? Sad.
I heard practitioners talked about less sacred spiritual environment of Sydney, I also experienced much powerful spiritual environment in Shanghai when I was visiting in 1999, among small group of 5 people! I always feel these spiritual solemness are extension of the energy of some practitioners, not the group. Spiritual solemness comes from within, not from the group, if you tasted some from a group, once you step out of the group, you wont feel anything, its not yours. Everyone needs grow their own spiritual depth, any Master cannot add on your head either. Yes, I dont feel there is strong spiritual environment in past few years in Sydney. but now I can sense more practitioners in Sydney, new comers or old ones, have strong sacred spiritual essence.
Falun Dafa has no gate to restrict anyone come to learn, some come to seek treating their illness, some for avoid loneliness… I dont know what made you come, and what limited your happiness while you are practicing Dafa? Is practicing FG one of the reason you divorced? One thing you made me alarmed now, is why you suddenly call me few weeks ago, that there must be some thing I am not on the par that made you think that I may stop following Dafa ? Thank you for this. I mean it.
Take care.
There’s a lot of stuff here that I don’t know how to engage with, [name removed].
Regarding all the Hillary conspiracy theories, you could spend some time looking at fact checking websites, there are people dedicated to investigating this stuff. And Trump honestly has no place labelling things fake news, since he is a serial liar himself.
I’ll say it again, there was no conspiracy, no higher evil power directing all this, just a team of experienced journalists doing their best to give a side to the story that people haven’t heard. You and I both know that people are dying regularly in Falun Gong from treatable medical conditions. And I can tell you that the Mountain isn’t the rosy place it’s made out to be. A lot of kids are coming out of that place seriously traumatised. I know for a fact that Li himself has a major anger management problem, he is not a nice person. There is a lot in Falun Gong that hasn’t been told, and should be told.
Of course the Falun Gong community won’t be happy with any report unless it’s told completely from their perspective, because they have a black and white understanding about truth. But it doesn’t work that way with media organisations that have editorial independence. You could consider listening to Hagar Cohen’s podcast series that came out at the same time as the FC report, the podcast goes into a lot more detail and tells a very compelling story.
I’m not going to talk to you about my beliefs because I left Falun Gong a long time ago now and I’m really happy I left. I wrote about my experience here, if you are interested: https://medium.com/@Ben_D_Hurley/-10677166298b
Take care,
Ben
Hi Ben,
I am sorry that your understanding seams total unfit with my logic. Your hearsay Satisfy you, while I never follow hearsay whichever the way.
Master Li clearly indicated in his lecture(audio): “If you dont feel ok with your health, pls go to hospital without delay…” (not exact words). It is such pity for people like you, not able to understand even at face value, let alone to understand it in a higher realm, a cultivators mind…..
To put it simple, when you try to enjoy Beethoven, the person who used to listen rock’n roll find really strange: “How boring?!” There is no easy compromise in understanding here….
I have known few people who decided in their later stage not going to hospital… For example, Sandra, I known things behind Sandra’s own decision: why she decided not to go to hospital in that second wave of illness, It didnt related to Dafa’s teaching at all….
I am so ashamed of you that bluntly lying about kids left mountain in NY…. I personally know few kids are grown to become so independent after they finish their dancing years…..and even doing business…. find good jobs.
Unless you are fed stories that CCP spies gathered for you, I wonder if you “came to Dafa” to do your “special Study”? There is not much spiritual understanding from your 12 years in Falun Gong, I am sorry, That’s probably why we never able to strike a conversation /cultivation sharing in the past….
I mention Hilary in last email because your programe named her, otherwise, I really not interested to talk about “The Elite pedophile ring.” You can simply find abundant details in just one youtube researcher “Amazing Polly”… unless your “secret faith” forbid you to watch them… There are many of youtubers like Polly, provide result of their research that fake news media would never let their followers to hear or to watch, just like the Chinese CCP.
I have enough of insight of you through these emails so far, Yes, I now do wonder, Is there an intelligence issue or moral character issue….. We are done.
Master Li says a lot of things in his books. The reality is that a lot of people still die in Falun Gong due to not taking medicine. He says this as a disclaimer while still encouraging this phenomenon in other ways, mostly through the Clearwisdom website and all the extreme stuff that appears there, but also in other contradictory teachings that tell people they are not true cultivators if they see a doctor or take medicine. You are being gullible to take these teachings of his at face value.
I’m ashamed of you, [name removed], for calling me a liar. I’ve spoken to A LOT of ex believers since I left Falun Gong and it’s safe to say that I know more about what life is like in that place than you do. I don’t have any reason to lie about this.
I really gave myself to Falun Gong during that time I was there — 12 years of my life. But I know that believers like you will always make excuses to write off the opinions of people after they leave. That’s what Li wants too. And somehow I always get the ridiculous accusation about some kind of CCP influence behind the scenes, and it is honestly an irrational and stupid accusation that I would give up 12 years of my life for a special study, where do you come up with this stuff? And do you really believe this stuff? I loathe the CCP and Xi Jinping. I also don’t like Falun Gong. I don’t feel any need to choose one or the other.
I guess you have forgotten that the two of us actually talked a lot. We would have long conversations on your front balcony in [a Sydney suburb] after practice. And you don’t get to tell me how good or otherwise is my ‘spiritual understanding’. I’m a lot more spiritual since I left Falun Gong I can tell you. And there isn’t much spirituality in Falun Gong at all these days. Just a whole lot of extreme right politics. The movement is getting more and more like Scientology.
If you get your understanding about world events from the ridiculous Qanon cult and its extremist zealots then there isn’t much I can say there, honestly, that stuff is flat out loony.
There is no issue with my intelligence. And I’m a very moral person. I’d question yours for cutting me off when I disagree with your rigid and irrational belief.
Ben
This one is a pretty classic example of an aggressive Falun Gong zealot. I met a lot of people like Edmund Ng when I was a believer. I doubt he actually read my article, he hasn’t engaged with any of the points I made but is just coughing up stuff from the standard FLG playbook. I’m not going to reply to his points because I’ve addressed most of them in my article already. I would like to draw attention to the last part of his message though, which is not friendly but a passive-aggressive warning that I face karmic retribution for posting articles criticising Falun Gong. Similar to the message from Richard above. I’m fairly well at peace with myself, Edmund. I hope you stop wishing bad things upon apostates, and I hope you stop telling yourself ridiculous fantasies (such as me being paid by the CCP) to preserve your vainglorious beliefs.
This is pretty amazing. I wonder how much you are being paid by CCP to sprout all this nonsense. Let me debunk you one by one.
- Falun Gong is not a religion nor does it operate like one. You come and go as you please. Nobody forces you to be a volunteer and you can leave as you please.
- Master Li does not tell you that you should not visit the hospital. On the contrary, he asks you to visit them if you see the need for it. Master Li does however explains that every illness is linked to karma as well as cause and effect. Dark matter is bad karma and white matter is virtue. When you do bad actions, e.g. such as eating live seafood or badmouthing people, this dark matter will cling on to your body. When enough of these dark matter cling on to organs, it causes cancer or the failure of organs.
- What is the purpose of meditation? At the highest level, it is self reflection. In Falun Gong, we are thought to look within ourselves when we encounter any problems. When a Falun Gong practitioner sees a lump on their head and rejects seeking medical treatment, that itself is an attachment.
- Master Li hands us the Zhuan Falun as well as the 5 different exercises. For those that diligently practice the exercises and read the scriptures, one should be in great health because one is removing their dark matter. With the removal of the dark matter, one is transforming their molecular body towards cosmic matter. Upon removal of the dark matter totally, one would have attained the Buddha Body and accomplished the first stage of full consummation.
- Everybody is responsible for their own actions, “个人因果个人负责”. It does not mean that every single person who cultivate the Falun Dafa is going to reach full consummation. The least one would achieve would be a person of good character by following 真善忍 “Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance”. For those pracitioners who does the exercise but do not read Zhuan Falun, they are just doing exercises. The mass majority of the Falun Gong practitioners are doing awesome and leading righteous lives. Based on your argument; if someone who’s ill and learn Tai Chi and later dies, are you going to blame Tai Chi for it? If Falun Gong is bad, then majority of the people should be dying isn’t it?
- Let me end by sharing this video. It is about 152 cancer patients who were given death sentences by their doctors. They were all terminally ill cancer patients at their last stages that were given between 5.2 months to 1 year to live. Guess what, after they complete the research, patients outlived their death dates by 56 months, approximately 10 times longer than the doctor had predicted. More importantly, 149 patients were still alive 5 years after the test, which is a 97% success rate. The most amazing part was that the average time needed for the cancer to be gone was just 1.3 times. One should not see Falun Gong as the cure for cancer because you get nothing if all your thoughts are just full of getting yourself cured. However, being cured is the by-product of cultivation due to the removal of dark matter, which ultimately causes cancer. I seriously hope you find peace Ben. Every action comes with consequences. It’s never too late to be at peace with yourself.
- (I deleted the link because I didn’t check it myself)
This weird and aggressive message doesn’t warrant a reply.
Hi Ben.
I ran across your blog article about leaving The Epoch Times. I can see that you had the desire to turn your shallow encounters and limited understanding of Falun Dafa into some kind of writing exercise. You clearly thought doing so would be emotionally moving to the reader, as if you had uncovered some kind of dark and self-deluding spiritual subculture and you woke up to realize what you had gotten involved in.
He then talks about some of his business activities for some reason, I deleted it because it might identify him.
I know that you weren’t really all that interested in the practice, nor did you really understand anything beyond the superficial because you say that there are “noisy arguments between The Chinese Communist Party and Falun Gong”. How can you write a sentence like that when there are major U.S. politicians from both sides of the aisle standing up and decrying the horrors inflicted on practitioners in China?
If you weren’t even convinced that the persecution is taking place in China, how can you say that you were eve [sic] practicing Falun Dafa? Everyone knows, even people who haven’t heard of Falun Gong, that the Chinese government persecutes spiritual believers and is repressive. Did you think there was a little spat between college students and the government in 1989 at Tiananmen? Do you think there is some bickering going on between students and the Chinese government in Hong Kong right now?
Some practitioners die because they insist on refusing to take medicine that they actually need to take. If you are really sick, take medicine. I think it is ill-advised not to take it if you need it. But I have personally seen one of my own sicknesses go away and it is obviously real. I went to a practice site in New York one time and the lady (practitioner) had a dark face and looked somewhat ill. Should she go to the hospital if she gets sick? Definitely. This is what people are told to do. At the same time, there are many inexplicable miracles of people.
But if you start to doubt that the practice is real, you are free to leave. Bye!
This one is really long and rambling, sorry. It’s a conversation between me and someone who contacted me on Facebook, and I’m proud of the way I stood up for my own beliefs in the face of his intolerance. I’ll put my messages in italics so you know which is me and which is him. Spelling, grammar and spacing/formatting are all as they came through.
Hi Ben
Are you a Dafa practitioner ?
I was.
Would you like to share about it ?
I am a practitioner and my experience has been great .
Nope. I’m very happy about and comfortable with my decision to leave, living a happy life that is spiritual in its own way, I have talked about it a lot already and don’t have any need to dissect it further. But you can read my article about it and I’m happy to answer any questions you might have.
I know … I read your article
I contacted you because my experience with the Fa and cultivation is totally different and what I have seen is miracles and miracles
I am a doctor and the interpretation of Master Li’s teaching about diseases is totally different . Master never forbids people to not go to doctor . I have been on the edge of dead and very sick and all my recovery was for my cultivation
When I obtained the Fa I was terrible sick , I though I was going to die .
You can type some things down and I’ll take a look when I get a moment. But I’m not really keen to listen to your experiences, I’ve heard so many and I don’t think it will be different. I wrote the article to help other Falun Gong practitioners make the difficult decision to leave, and I’m always happy to talk to those people about the difficulties they will encounter and give some advice from my perspective. If you find yourself disillusioned and considering making that difficult decision, feel free to reach out.
The same way you try to “ help “ people out to leave the Fa I am trying you not to leave it
Anyway I need to go but type what you want here and I’ll have a look at it later. Can’t promise much of a reply but will send some thoughts if I have any.
Because I am a miracle and witness of the Fa
Think about it …
I will continue to help people to leave what I believe from deep personal experience is an unhealthy group. I feel sad for the friends I had that died, or that aren’t fulfilling their potential. I feel sad for the children on the mountain, I’ve heard a lot of their stories there, it’s not the happy place it’s made out to be. And I feel sad that so many people are using their creative energy to further the agenda of a malevolent man.
Master is not that
Not a single though of him is wrong
You are taking the wrong path and is all evil interference
Kids in the mountain cultivate like any other practitioners . I have many friends there .
People leave the mountains because they want to fulfil a human life
You should not spread ideas like this neither you should speak wrong about Master who dedicated his life to spread the Fa
You are not helping people , you are damaging them and damaging yourself
Malevolent is the ccp who kills practitioners and sale their organs . With your post you are only jeopardizing practitioners’s life in China . And contributing to the persecution . Please think before you do things
I’m not here to be lectured by you about how I should live my life. And I agree with you that the CCP is malevolent, I made that clear in the article. But then Falun Gong kills people too — many thousands I would guess. There is no persecution coming from people like me, I have very meticulously argued my reasons and perspective. If you think I’m a persecutor because I have my own ideas, it sounds like you are much closer in mindset to the CCP dictatorship than you realise. Your perspective contains none of your own thoughts, your words are simply a carbon copy of what Master Li teaches and you haven’t thought outside that box. If you want to discuss one day from a more rational perspective feel free to get in touch. Otherwise best to save your energy. Good luck David.
Ben , Falun Dafa does not kill people . The ccp does it . I have been searching for the truth since I am child . I started having contact with Buddhism and only after being older and educated I founded all the answers I have been looking for . I understand that you may want to stop practicing but why you want to damage millions of people who believe and practice ? You can quietly quit and stop but making post with all the things you wrote is only bad thing . What have you received wrong from Dafa ? No one forced you to stay and read and practice , no one asked you donate money or give away your life or possessions . People can enter the cultivation and leave as they want . There is nothing wrong with practicing Falun Dafa , people can enter and leave as they want. Why you have grudges against a cultivation practice that only teaches you to be a good person ? Have you receive any wrong teachings ? Truth , compassion and forbearance are wrong things ? Meditation and Qi gong are wrong things ? Not drinking , not smoking ,not using drugs, respecting the law, the other humans and the rest of the universe is wrong ? If a Practitioner is sick and want to go to hospital have you seen some one suing them or rejecting them from practice ? There are practitioners that openly share they go to hospitals because they feel sick . Master has addressed that millón times ; if you feel sick go to hospital . I have changed my whole life , my actions , my soul thanks to Dafa . There is nothing in wrong to believe in God , Buddha , Daos , there is nothing wrong to cultivate the heart and the body . Falun Dafa only teaches people to be good , as Buddhism , as Christianity . Is this a non rational perspective ? People who drink , smoke , uses drugs , break the law and so on are good people ??? How can you let your notions to blind your heart , I don’t need good luck, but you need to think on what you are doing and reflect on the life of practitioners killed by the ccp and how post like yours encourage people to justify the killing of practitioners by the ccp . Please think , reflect and look inside . If you want to quit after seeing the truth is your option but you can just wrote what you wrote because is not truth .
It is true what I wrote David. Every word. You obviously haven’t read it. Or skimmed it paying zero attention. Im not sure if you are aware how patronising you sound asking me to think and reflect and look inside. I do that as much as you. Probably more actually by the looks of things. I wrote that article from a deep place of humility and love towards the people i know who died, and the people suffering in falun gong who are too afraid to leave. Your suggestion that i am aiding the persecution for telling my story is ludicrous, I am not sure what could be going on in your head to lead you to think that. I can’t be bothered talking to you anymore.
Ben Falun Gong teachings and practice are open to anyone , there is no dirty secrets or hiding things , or news passed secretly to hide things . Eventually you did not cultivate yourself in those years you try. You think you are benefiting people with this ? You think practitioners are going to surround you and follow your steps and you are going to be the saviour ? Do you really think you are doing something good ? Practitioners are not afraid to leave the practice neither they feel threatened for anyone . People practice Falun Dafa out of their own trust , no one deceive them or lie to them . People can believe or not , is up to anyone . You decided to leave and are free to do what ever you want , I am not patronizing you but as a practitioner i am questioning the way to wrote your post because it is guided in a damaging way . Your post show practitioners as victims, and mostly focus on people’s dead . For you maybe this life and dead are very important . For other people it may not be . Tibetians, Buddhism, daoism , Christians, even Muslims attach little value to this life. But not in the gross sense you wrote neither in nor taking care of them or living the life like normal people . We live life like anyone else but try to improve ourselves and be better persons everyday . There is no victims inside the practice , practitioners are not obligated to believe or to act in certain way . Practitioners are not obligated to not search for medical health if they are sick , your words undermine the beliefs of millions of people around the world and justify the communist party’s persecution . Is hard to see you writing things like this, you won’t affect me or other practitioners for sure . Do you think practitioners live in fear and waiting for some one like you to rescue them ? Do you believe practitioners are obligated to practice ? Your post make you look like victim when you are not . No one forced you to stay or read or participate in activities . You did it in your own will , no one ask practitioners to leave families or friends or live a separated life ( that is Zealous and practitioners are aware of that ) I have a normal life , I am a Doctor and treat my patients and practitioners come to my clinic asking for medical advise when they need it . And they receive medical treatments as any one else . They never feel threatened or embarrassed for asking medical advises , they go to family doctors and they seek for medical care if they need it . As me millions of people around the world live and practice in all the professions , there are thousands of doctors practicing Dafa . We understand the value of it. I have family and friends , eat what ever I want , go to movies and live like a regular person . Millions of practitioners do the same everywhere . People are not forced to practice neither the purpose of giving flyers is to make people to enter the practice . People get interested and get the book or read it online and if the like it they star the practice , if they don’t like it they just stop and there is no harassing or calls asking them to practice . Some times I don’t go to study groups for weeks and no one call me to demand me to go to study . No one forced me to participate in activities neither I was told it was wrong not to do it . I do it out of my heart as I can and I am always welcomed with no criticism . My family knows I practice and they told me I have changed for good , I don’t drink , not smoke nor use drugs , I treat people around Me with compassion and people always say good things about my behaviour and actions . I have many friends and I never introduced the practice to them . I talk about the persecution and people who are interested go to the website and read about it . If they like it they continue if they don’t they just don’t practice , we are good friends and family . People may practice for years and leave or stay and no one is forcing no one to practice or not . You post yourself like a victim that you are not . All you write is open to public , anyone has access to the websites , the books, the exercises sites , the newspaper and magazines , there is nothing secret or hide !!!! The information is there for anyone who wants to read and have their own opinion !!!
Your post only mislead yourself , you think you are saving people and you post like you are a leader of people who are suffering and suppressed inside a jail and want to leave . Who ever practiced knows that is not true at all . You enter the practice and no one obligated you to do it , you get the learnings and meet people and gather and did activities on your own will, and you decide to leave and no one is asking you back or bothering you for that , I choose to write you here because your words and writings may damage other people . People are smart and capable , all the truth about Dafa is open to the public everywhere in dozens of languages !!! What make you think there are dirty secrets !
People die as normal people die . You tried hard to cultivate and practice but you did not grab the essence of the practice . Everything you wrote in your post you know it from the beginning, the way you present your memories is not with the good intention to benefit other people . Is a writing on resentment and hate . Why you did not quit before ? Why you did not stop practicing once you saw something you don’t believe ? I have practiced for 11 years and my trust have never move an inch away. In this years I have people come and show interest , some stay , some not . Some persist with no regrets and some leave with no anger , Falun Dafa is good .
This one is pretty interesting. It doesn’t really fall into the category of aggressive blowback, as the conversation unfolded I think it turned out we had more in common than I initially thought. It’s an example of some of the interesting conversations that take place among ex-believers as we find our footing in our new skins, so to speak.
Hi Ben,
Like Ben, I practiced Falun Gong for 10 years and then stopped, probably about four years ago. I gained a lot from practicing while I did, but at a certain point I felt the requirements for me were greater than I could fulfill. I stopped practicing at much, and then much of what I was doing related to the practice and other practitioners lost meaning. Over time, I lost my faith.
I think that not all practices are for all people. It is OK. I started practicing when I was in my 20s, and I took a pretty extreme approach — as I did toward everything at that age. I think a person practicing Falun Gong really has to focus on balancing his or her life because the temptation to take things too far is great. That definitely happened for me, and I can see it in others who still practice. The practice does not tell people to do that — that is people being people. People are imperfect. I have found the vast vast majority of people who practice Falun Gong to be kind people who mean well. They are warm, they are caring toward their family and friends, and they have a genuine concern for humanity.
All that said, I fully appreciate how difficult it is to leave a community, a way of life, and a faith. It is very, very challenging. I have struggled a lot since stopping. I think it is callous to minimize how difficult it is to leave a spiritual faith.
Like Ben says, the persecution against Falun Gong is wrong. The practice is not a threat to anyone, and I do not believe it is a cult. I say that with a fair amount of confidence: My former husband and daughter still practice, so I have a lot of exposure to it still. It is not the practice for me, but I can appreciate that it is for some.
Georgia I’m not really sure how you can draw these conclusions. By the sounds of it, you’re not an ex-believer, you still believe only you don’t practice anymore. There are a lot of differences between these points of view but a big one I see a lot is people leaving and thinking they weren’t good enough, rather than leaving the belief because they realised the teachings and culture were problematic in so many ways. After years of devotion it takes what feels like an enormous step to see Li as just another human, face and defy the fears he has fostered about what happens to people who leave, see his claims about himself and his magical abilities as deceptive and his teachings as false and manipulative. It’s a painful transition and I don’t think you have gone through it yet.
I don’t know how you can say the practice doesn’t encourage people to go to extremes. Li continually reminds his followers that if they don’t fulfil their missions and leave the practice, they will go to hell (he calls it the gate of no life, same thing). He gives lectures that deliver ‘stick warnings’ to believers not doing well enough which include reminders about how billions of the world’s people will face a terrifying end. He has described hell with details that include boiling in a pot of human sputum. I mentioned in my article an example of Li not bringing rationality to the question of people spending literally hours of their time after work in a room silently chanting (‘sending righteous thoughts’, I thought there were no religious rituals in Falun Gong) when there were so many other demands on their time, there are so many examples of this.
Falun Gong isn’t just Li’s writings, it’s also the teachings on the Clearwisdom (Minghui) website which is not an open forum but rather a tightly curated website which probably plays a greater role than Li’s actual teachings in guiding the actions and beliefs of Falun Gong practitioners. The lie that it’s an open forum for practitioners gives Li a kind of plausible deniability (although not plausible for me and other ex-believers) over the reams and reams of extreme and apocalyptic teachings that have been published there. Li’s writings are extreme enough but they are nothing compared to what practitioners used to read daily on Clearwisdom when I was a believer. Stories about Falun Gong practitioners who refused medicine and got through deadly diseases based on their belief alone. Apocalyptic visions involving monsters devouring people who didn’t think Falun Gong was good. All encouraging the most dangerous ideas in the community.
When the Chinese government outlawed Falun Gong, Li had nothing to say, he disappeared for a year and a half leaving his followers to face the consequences of his actions and teachings, while he re-wrote all his teachings to give a spiritual narrative to the Chinese government’s campaign and turn his followers in China into martyrs. One of the worst examples of his behaviour is the way he, for years, warned of dire spiritual consequences of practitioners signing ‘guarantee statements’ not to practice, manipulating believers into going to jail for him, suffering torture for him, dying for him. He continually reminded believers of all the things he had done for them. But…what has he actually done for them if you don’t believe he is a god and has drunk cups of poison for them and suffered for their sins? We have seen thousands of Falun Gong practitioners die pushing his vendetta against the Chinese government while he directs things in comfort from America. I am against the way the Chinese government went against Falun Gong using violence and lies, I believe in free speech and democracy and loathe Xi’s administration, and I believe the Chinese government would have done much better sticking to their pre-1999 approach of publicising the negative aspects of Falun Gong and keeping their credibility. But I also don’t call it persecution anymore because it is obvious to me, and I suspect was obvious to them, that they were up against an organisation of uncompromising extremists directed by a man in a foreign country that they couldn’t hold to account. A man who would send his believers out to suffer for him and to die for him, as he has done. Do you really believe that Li was ‘just changing planes in Beijing’ and had nothing to do with orchestrating the Zhongnanhai incident?
I only wish I could go into more details about what life is like for the kids on the mountain, but that matter is for the people who have left that place to reveal when they are emotionally ready to come forward. But I can tell you, after learning more about how Falun Gong operates at Cuddebackville and what Li is like in person, I do now consider Falun Gong to be a cult in the most classic sense. One example I know about is Li, in one of his regular talks to kids on the mountain, using the example of a young man who left the mountain and shortly later committed suicide to demonstrate to his listeners what happens when people leave.
A lot of practitioners (hundreds, probably thousands) have died in agony that few of us can imagine due to the teachings against taking medicine. This is a fact. I also know examples of parents not giving their kids medicine for dangerous diseases. Most practitioners I know are against vaccination. I’ve been contacted by numerous practitioners warning me of the dire consequences for me for leaving Falun Gong and speaking out about it, the belief in terrifying karmic retribution for people who leave Falun Gong is widespread. Theoretically people can leave anytime they choose, but they are afraid to leave due to manipulative teachings, along with other reasons like family ties which you can probably relate to.
I could go on and write responses like this for hours to people like you who have read my article and still hold onto your illusions about Falun Gong. I can only hope that one day you face up to the spectre of this toxic man, free yourself and reclaim your life and your dreams.
Hi Ben. Thank you for your thoughtful response. I understand and have felt/ thought many of the things you talked about in your two posts. I found them helpful and affirming.
My situation is complicated because of my daughter, so I can’t completely cut everything off. I no longer think I am a terrible person, in fact I think I am pretty rational and made the right decision to leave. I have a spiritual practice that makes sense to me and has none of the characteristics of FLG. (I took that pretty slowly.) And I am no longer angry at people who were once my friends, my community, or my husband. I still think FLG played a key role in the end of my marriage, but I have come to peace with that.
I worked at the mountain for years. I personally knew the student who killed himself, and I have witnessed many other things.
But I think we differ in our views on some points. I am sorry for trying to draw parallels between you and I that are not there, erroneously conflating our experiences.
However, I don’t believe that because I express myself differently that I have not moved on. I understand why you would say that, and of course your reaction is your own. I am only taking the time to say this because I imagine others who have left the practice have and will continue to reach out to you. They too may vary in their experiences and understandings.
I realize I opened myself up to that kind of response because I failed to understand the essence of what you were saying and tried to equate our experiences. For that I apologize. My post was motivated by the ugly responses from FLG practitioners- I didn’t like how some were responding to you and wanted them to get off your back, but still I was wrong. Ah well. Seeing my error, I will probably delete the post. (Can I do that? I bet so.)
All the best to you. And again, thank you for responding.
Georgia
Georgia I probably should apologise to you because I seem to have misunderstood your intentions. It’s been a common criticism from FLG believers that I went to extremes, and that’s why I had a bad experience with FLG, and this was my fault, not FLG’s fault. I’ve made a point of countering this message because I disagree with it, and also because it’s exactly what Li wants people to think. But perhaps I was being overly defensive, as you point out I’ve had some pretty nasty comments from people who are still believers.
It’s hard to know how much we differ. I feel that I differ to Samuel Luo on some points when reading his extensive criticisms of FLG on the point of him seeming to support the Chinese government’s campaign. Perhaps in the same way you consider your views to differ from mine. Maybe as you say it’s just a difference in how we express our views. I don’t support the CCP, I just don’t have the same black-and-white view of the situation as I did when I was a believer.
There’s a growing community of ex-believers. I can introduce you to a forum you can join anonymously if you want to email me at leavingfalungong@gmail.com — as you say there are a wide range of opinions among ex-believers but I think we’ve all got a lot in common, and these conversations are cathartic for us all.
I would say don’t delete the post, because believers who are questioning do read through these conversation chains and I think it’s all helpful. But that’s up to you. Again, I’m sorry for my over-reaction.
I’ll post more as they come.
